UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
CRIMINAL CASE NO. 87-466

v.

WASHINGTON, D. C. JUNE 8, 1988 9:30 A. M.

STEPHEN SEMPLE, A/K/A SUNRISE.
DEFENDANT.

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING ON MOTIONS BEFORE THE HONORABLE LOUIS F. OBERDORFER UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE GOVERNMENT: JOHN FINNEGAN, ESQ., ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY

FOR THE DEFENDANT: APPEARING PRO SE

(PROCEEDINGS REPORTED BY MACHINE SHORTHAND; TRANSCRIPT PRODUCED BY NOTEREADING.)

Thomas Toros K, Der Dourian
Official Court Reporter 6806
United States Court House


2
PROCEEDINGS

THE DEPUTY CLERK: THE UNITED STATES VERSUS STEPHEN SEMPLE, CRIMINAL CASE NO. 87-466 FOR THE GOVERNMENT, MR. FINNEGAN. THE DEFENDANT IS APPEARING PRO SE.

THE COURT: MR. FINNEGAN?

MR. FINNEGAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WE ARE REALLY HERE ON THE FURTHER HEARING ON THE PROBATION VIOLATION, IF MY UNDERSTANDING IS CORRECT.

MR. FINNEGAN: THAT IS CORRECT.

THE COURT: AND YOU WERE GOING TO PROFFER SOME TEST OF AN OFFICER.

MR. FINNEGAN: YES, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE TWO OFFICERS: OFFICER SMITH AND --

THE COURT: WELL, NOW, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS That I HAVE GONE BACK AND LOOKED AT THE ORIGINS OF THIS CASE, AND I WANTED TO REVIEW IT WITH YOU, IF YOU HAD IT FRESH IN YOUR MIND. IF NOT, MAYBE WE CAN RECONSTRUCT IT. MY RECORDS SHOW THAT THERE WAS A CONVICTION OF MR. SEMPLE ON NOVEMBER 17TH BEFORE MAGISTRATE BURNETT

MR. FINNEGAN: I PARTICIPATED AS THE PROSECUTOR IN THAT CASE. THE EXACT DATE, I DON'T HAVE THE FILE WITH ME AT THIS MOMENT, SIR.

THE COURT: WELL, I just LOOKED IT UP, AND MY ORDER OF FEBRUARY 11TH REFERS TO HIS CONVICTION.

MR. FINNEGAN: I ACCEPT THAT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AND THEN THE MATTER CAME ON BEFORE ME ON APPEAL.

MR. FINNEGAN: THAT IS CORRECT.

THE COURT: AND I JUST HAD THE CLERK REVIEW THE TRANSCRIPT OF THAT WITH ME, AND THE APPEAL INDICATES THAT I INQUIRED OF MR. SEMPLE WHETHER HE WAS APPEALING THE CONVICTION OR THE SENTENCE, OR BOTH. AND HE SAID HE WAS APPEALING IT ALL, AND I THEN MADE A ONE-SENTENCE RULING THAT THE JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION BY MAGISTRATE BURNETT WAS SUPPORTED BY THE EVIDENCE AND SUPPORTED BY THE LAW, AND I SAID NO MORE.

MR. FINNEGAN: AND THEN YOU PROCEEDED TO CONSTRUCT A NEW SENTENCE.

THE COURT: AND THEN I PROCEEDED TO THE SENTENCING AND TRIED TO DESIGN THIS PROBATION SYSTEM.

THE COURT: NOW, THE MATTER IS ON APPEAL IN THE COURT OF APPEALS. MR. FINNEGAN: I HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THAT BY YOUR CLERK. THE COURT: PARDON? MR. FINNEGAN: I WAS ADVISED OF THAT BY YOUR CLERK, YOUR HONOR. I HAD ASKED TO SEE THE FILE, AND HE INDICATED THAT IT WAS CHECKED OUT TO THE COURT OF APPEALS.


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THE COURT: I HAVE IT HERE NOW, IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT. YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE CASE IN THE COURT OF APPEALS?

MR. FINNEGAN: I DO NOT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S HEAR YOUR OFFICER.

MR. FINNEGAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. OFFICER SMITH, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. FINNEGAN: YOUR HONOR, I MIGHT POINT OUT THAT I HAVE ANOTHER WITNESS PRESENT. IF THERE IS A RULE ON WITNESS I WOUSD ASK THAT HE BE EXCUSED.

THE COURT: YES.

MR. FINNEGAN: OFFICER FORNSHILL, WILL YOU HAVE A SEAT OUTSIDE? MIGHT I INQUIRE IF THE DEFENDANT HAS ANY WITNESSES PRESENT IN COURT? I WOULD ASK FOR A RULE ON WITNESSES.

MR. SEMPLE: COULD I CHECK?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. WHILE HE IS GETTING READY, I AM GOING TO TAKE JUST A BRIEF RECESS.

MR. FINNEGAN: CERTAINLY.

THE COURT: YOU STAY RIGHT THEIR, OFFICER.

(BRIEF RECESS.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY PROCEED, MR. FINNEGAN


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MR. FINNEGAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DAVID LARRY SMITH, JR., GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, SWORN

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. OFFICER SMITH, COULD YOU PLEASE FULLY IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD?

A. MY NAME IS DAVID LARRY SMITH, JR., OFFICER OF THE UNITED STATES PARK POLICE.

Q. OFFICER, AS A PARK POLICEMAN, ARE YOU OCCASIONALLY Assign TO PATROL THE LAFAYETTE PARK AREA OF THE CITY?

A. YES, SIR, I AM.

Q. AND LET ME PLEASE DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE EARLY MORN HOURS OF APRIL 3, 1988. WERE YOU SO ASSIGNED?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. DID YOU HAVE THE OCCASION TO MEET OR SEE AN INDIVIDUAL YOU KNOW AS MR. SEMPLE?

A. YES, I DID.

Q. AND DO YOU SEE MR. SEMPLE IN COURT NOW?

A. YES, I DO.

Q. WOULD YOU PLEASE POINT HIM OUT?

A. THE GENTLEMAN SITTING RIGHT OVER HERE.

MR. FINNEGAN: MAY TKE RECORD INDICATE THAT HE HAS IDENTIFIED THE DEFENDANT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES. HE HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED

MR. FINNEGAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.


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BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE OCCASION ON WHICH YOU SAW MR. SEMPL THAT MORNING AND THE APPROXIMATE TIME YOU SAW HIM THAT MORNING

A. IT WAS APPROXIMATELY, TO MY RECOLLECTION, 2:00 A. M. IN THE MORNING.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

A. I USUALLY GO OUT AND PATROL ONCE AN HOUR IN THE PARK, ESPECIALLY ALONG THE PENNSYLVANIA SIDE. THAT IS WHERE ALL OF THE DEMONSTRATORS ARE PLACED, AND AT THAT TIME ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WERE ASLEEP WHEN -- MOST OF THEM WERE COVERED WITH SLEEPING BAGS AND BLANKETS. SOME OF THEM I HAD SEEN SEVERAL OTHER TIMES BEFORE WRITING CITATIONS FOR THEM. MR. SEMPLE WAS ONE OF THOSE.

Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT WAS HE DOING THAT CAUSED YOU TO WRITE HIM A CITATION THAT MORNING?

A. THAT MORNING. I HAD TO FIRST GET THE BLANKET OFF HIS HEAD SO I COULD SEE WHO IT WAS. I FOUND OUT IT WAS MR. SEMPLE. I SPOKE TO HIM TWICE TO TRY TO GET HIS ATTENTION TO WAKE HIM UP. THE THIRD TIME I DID END UP YELLING AT HIM, AND HE DID FINALLY AROUSE.

THE COURT: THE THIRD TIME?

THE WITNESS: YES, ON THE THIRD-TIME WARNING. THE THIRD TIME I YELLED AT HIM TO WAKE HIM UP, AND WHICH HE DID FINALLY AWAKEN, AND WHICH AT THAT POINT I WROTE THE CITATION


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OUT TO HIM.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. NOW, WHAT WAS THE CITATION? WHAT VIOLATION DID YOU NOTE:

A. I WROTE THE CITATION FOR CAMPING WITHIN THE PARK.Q. FROM THE TIME AT WHICH YOU STARTED TO WAKE HIM UP UNTIL THE TIME YOU FINALLY AROUSED HIM, HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN

A. I WOULD SAY BETWEEN, MOST LIKELY, FIVE MINUTES.

Q. NOW, DO YOU RECALL WHAT ITEMS MR. SEMPLE HAD WITH HIM AT THAT TIME?

A. MR. SEMPLE HAD SEVERAL ITEMS: PLASTIC TARP, SLEEPING BAG! BLANKETS. THERE WAS ALSO A LARGE AMOUNT OF FOOD LYING AROUND THE DEMONSTRATION, AS WELL AS THE TWO MAJOR SIGNS THAT HE USES FOR HIS DEMONSTRATION.

Q. DID YOU ISSUE OTHER CITATIONS TO OTHER INDIVIDUALS AT THE SAME TIME?

A. YES, I DID. I ISSUED ONE TO A MRS. GREENER, WHO WAS AT THE SITE, AND THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY FIVE OTHER PEOPLE. THEY HAD ALREADY AROUSED BY THE TIME, OR AWAKENED BY THE TIME I HAD TALKED TO MRS. GREENER AND MR. SEMPLE, SO AT THAT TIME I JUST WROTE THOSE TWO CITATIONS AND WARNED THE OTHERS TAAT THEY WERE ALSO IN VIOLATION.

Q. NOW, HOW OFTEN ARE YOU ASSIGNED TO PATROL LAFAYETTE PARK? BETWEEN TWO TO THREE TIMES EVERY MONTH.


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Q OKAY. ON EACH OF THOSE OCCASIONS, DO YOU RECALL SEEING MR. SEMPLE THERE AT THE TIME?

A. YES, I DO.

Q. DO YOU EVER RECALL NOT SEEING HIM WHILE YOU PATROLLED THE AREA?

A. NOT THE TIMES THAT HE HAS BEEN OUT OF JAIL.

Q. ALL RIGHT. MR. FINNEGAN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION, MR. SEMPLE.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. HELLO, HOW ARE YOU DOING THIS MORNING?

A. HELLO.

Q. WAS THAT THE DAY YOU TOOK THE PICTURES?

A. PARDON?

Q. WAS THAT THE DAY YOU TOOK PICTURES?

A. I DID NOT TAKE PICTURES.

Q. YOU AAD ANOTHER OFFICER TAKE PICTURES?

A. SOMEONE ELSE DID, YES.

Q. WASN'T THERE AN OFFICER THAT ARRESTED ME THAT DAY?

A. NOT THAT DAY, NOT THE DAY THAT I WORKED ON APRIL 3RD. PREVIOUS TO MYSELF ON DUTY -- I JUST WROTE THE CITATION

Q. AND THIS IS THE DAY WHERE THERE WAS THE ARREST?


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MR. FINNEGAN: IF I MAY, YOUR HONOR, THIS CONCERNS APPROXIMATELY 2:00 A. M., ON APRIL 3RD ONLY. IT DOES NOT COVER ANY OTHER DATE OR TIME THAT I AM AWARE OF. THERE IS ANOTHER OFFICER HERE, WHO, I BELIEVE, WILL TESTIFY ABOUT ANOTHER INCIDENT.

THE COURT: DOES THAT HELP YOU, MR. SEMPLE?

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. AND YOU WROTE A CITATION TO ME AT 2:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

A. YES, SIR, I DID.

MR. SEMPLE: I AM SORRY. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU MAY BE SEATED.

MR. SEMPLE: MAYBE I SHOULD ASK SOME MORE QUESTIONS. HE SAID THERE WAS FOOD LYING AROUND AND THINGS LIKE THAT. MAYBE WE OUGHT TO CLEAR THAT UP.

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. GO AHEAD.

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. DID YOU INQUIRE AS TO WHO OWNED THE THINGS AROUND THE DEMONSTRATION SITE?

A. AT THE TIME, NO.

Q. OKAY. SO YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY WHETHER EVERYTHING TO ME, YOU KNOW, LIKE BLANKETS, PLASTIC, FOOD, WHATEVER?

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A. NO, BUT IT WAS ON YOUR DEMONSTRATION SITE.

Q. SO IS IT POSSIBLE THAT MAYBE THE STUFF DID NOT BELONG TO ME, BUT STREET PEOPLE, OR OTHER PEOPLE, COULD HAVE LEFT IT THERE, EVEN WITHOUT MY PERMISSION?

A. IT IS POSSIBLE.

Q. WAS THERE FOOD, MAYBE, IN A BOX THAT YOU SAW?

A. I SAW ITEMS LIKE ITALIAN BREAD STILL IN THE BAG, BUT ON THE GROUND.

THE COURT: ITEMS LIKE WHAT?

THE WITNESS: ITALIAN BREAD OR BREAD LIKE -- LIKE --

THE COURT: FRENCH BREAD?

THE WITNESS: ITALIAN BREAD, ALSO.

BY MR. SEMPLE: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE?

A. THERE WERE ITEMS OF CANNED FOOD THAT WERE LYING AROUND, AND APPLES AND FRUIT. THERE WERE ALSO SOME THAT WERE IN BOXES BUT SOME WERE ALSO ON THE GROUND

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY PHOTOS OF THIS INCIDENT?

A. NO, I DON'T.

Q. OKAY. SO BY "LYING AROUND," DO YOU MEAN SPREAD OUT ON TRE SIDEWALK, OR DO YOU MEAN STACKED AT A CERTAIN POINT?

A. THEY WERE ON THE SIDEWALK. THEY WERE ON THE GRASS RIGHT BEHIND YOUR DEMONSTRATION, WITHIN THE FIVE FEET WHERE YOU WERE SLEEPING ON YOUR DEMONSTRATIN SITE, BEHIND THE SIGNS, BETWEEN EVERYTHING


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Q. AND SO WHAT WAS THE REASON YOU GAVE THE CITATION FOR?

A. AS I STATED, I FOUND YOU ASLEEP UNDERNEATH THE BLANKETS.

Q. AND IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?

A. NO CAMPING; IT'S THE DESCRIPTION OF CAMPING.

Q. SLEEPING IS CAMPING?

A. YES, SIR, WITH BEDROLLS.

Q. OKAY. THANK YOU.

MR. FINNEGAN: I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR, OF OFFICER SMITH.

THE COURT: YOU ARE EXCUSED. CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESSS

MR. FINNEGAN.

MR. FINNEGAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE GOVERNMENT WOULD CALL OFFICER FORNSHILL. KEVIN FORNSHILL, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, SWORN.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. OFFICER, COULD YOU PLEASE FULLY IDENTIFY Yourself FOR THE RECORD?

A. MY NAME IS KEVIN FORNSHILL. I AM A PRIVATE WITH THE UNITED STATES PARK POLICE.

Q. NOW, OFFICER, LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF APRIL 8TH OF THIS YEAR. DID YOU HAVE THE OCCASION TO BE ASSIGNED TO PATROL THE LAFAYETTE PARK AREA OF THE CITY?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND AT APPROXIMATELY 4:00 F. M. THAT AFTERNOON DID YOU

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HAVE THE OCCASION TO MEET OR SEE AN INDIVIDUAL THAT YOU KNOW MR. SEMPLE?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. DO YOU SEE MR. SEMPLE IN COURT NOW?

A. I DO, SIR.

Q. COULD YOU PLEASE POINT HIM OUT?

A. THIS GENTLEMAN SEATED AT THE TABLE.

MR. FINNEGAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY THE RECORD REFLECT HE HAS IDENTIFIED MR. SEMPLE, THE PROBATIONER?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. FINNEGAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR,

BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. NOW, OFFICER, WHAT WAS THE OCCASION ON WHICH YOU SAW HIM AT 4:00 O'CLOCK THAT AFTERNOON; DO YOU RECALL?

A. THAT AFTERNOON, I WAS PATROLLING AT LAFAYETTE PARK, DOING MY NORMAL DUTIES. I TOOK NOTE OF THE FACT THAT MR. SEMPLE'S DEMONSTRATION HAD A GREAT DEAL OF ITEMS SURROUNDING IT. AT THAT TIME I REQUESTED A CAMERA FROM THER CENTRAL DISTRICT STATION TO BE DELIVERED TO ME IN ORDER THAT I MIGHT TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF HIS DEMONSTRATION. I WAS ABLE TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS, AND LATER MR. SEMPLE WAS ARRESTED FOR CAMPING.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

MR. FINNEGAN: NOW, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HAD THESE PHOTOGRAPHS MARKED AS A CUMULATIVE EXHIBIT 1. MR. SEMPLE HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS. THERE ARE 23


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PHOTOGRAPHS IN ALL. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. OFFICER, I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THAT STACK OF PHOTOGRAPHS. LOOK THROUGH THEM, AND, THEN, WHEN YOU ARE FINISHED, LET ME KNOW, PLEASE.

A. YES, SIR, THESE ARE THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I TOOK.

THE COURT: WERE THESE ALL TAKEN AT THE SAME TIME, THE AFTERNOON OF APRIL 8TH?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: AND YOU TOOK THESE PHOTOGRAPHS YOURSELF?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. DO THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS FAIRLY AND ACCURATELY DEPICT THE SCEN AS YOU RECALL SEEING IT YOURSELF?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. NOW, OFFICER, WHY DID YOU ARREST MR. SEMPLE THAT AFTEIWOON COULD YOU TELL US WHAT HE DID THAT CAUSED YOU TO PLACE HIM UNDER ARREST?

A. WHEN I ARRIVED AT LAFAYETTE PARK FOR MY BRIEFING WITH THE OFFICER I WAS RELIEVING, I TOOK NOTE OF THE FACT TKAT ON THE BULLETIN BOARD IN OUR LITTLE OFFICE WAS A COPY OF MR. SEMPLE'S CONDITIONS OF PROBATION. I WAS REVIEWING THE CONDITIONS OF PROBATION AND LATER TOOK A WALK THROUGH THE PARK AND TOOK A LOOK AT MR. SEMPLE'S


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DEMONSTRATION, TAKING NOTE THAT THE ITEMS WERE THERE, I THOUGHT, IN VIOLATION OF THE CONDITIONS OF PROBATION. MR. SEMPLE -- WELL, I TOOK PHOTOGRAPHS AFTER RECEIVING THE CAMERA AND PLACED MR. SEMPLE UNDER ARREST. HE HAD NO POSITIVE MEANS OF IDENTIFICATION. BEING RELATIVELY NEW TO THE FORCE, I TOOK HIM DOWN TO THE CENTRAL DISTRICT STATION IN ORDER THAT A POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION MIGHT BE MADE ON MR. SEMPLE.

Q. NOW, THESE ITEMS, HOW COULD YOU DETERMINE WHOSE ITEMS THEY WERE FROM WHAT YOU SAW?

A. THEY WERE IN HIS IMMEDIATE CONTROL. BY THAT, I MEAN THAT THE TWD SIGNS THAT MR. SEMPLE HAD AT HIS DEMONSTRATION SITE, THE ITEMS WERE AT THE BASE OF THE SIGNS, THEMSELVES, OR BETWEEN THE TWO SIGNS.

Q. DID OU EVER ASK MR. SEMPLE IF THOSE WERE HIS ITEMS?

A. AT THE CENTRAL DISTRICT STATION, WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWING MR. SEMPLE, I ASKED HIM TO STATE WHICH ITEMS BELONGED TO HIM, IN ORDER THAT THE OFFICER AT LAFAYETTE PARK MIGHT TAKE THEM UNDER CONTROL FOR SAFEKEEPING UNTIL HE RETURNED. HE STATED A CERTAIN NUMBER OF ITEMS -- AND, UNFORTUNATELY, I DID NOT HAVE THE LIST BROUGHT -- WERE HIS. ANYBODY WHO HAD ITEMS BELONGING TO THEM AT MR. SEMPLE'S DEMONSTRATE SITE WERE TOLD TO REMOVE THEM. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF ITEMS THAT WERE REMOVED, BUT A LARGE NUMEER OF ITEMS STILL REMAINED AT THE SITE.


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MR. FINNEGAN: YOUR HONOR, I PROFFER THESE PHOTOGRAPHS TO THE COURT.

THE COURT: HAND THEM UP, PLEASE.

MR. FINNEGAN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS OF OFFICER FORNSHILL.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CROSS-EXAMINATION, MR. SEMPLE.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. WERE YOU UNDER ANY ORDERS TO ARREST ANYBODY THAT DAY?

A. NO, SIR, I WAS NOT.

Q. IS IT USUAL TO ARREST PEOPLE FOR CAMPING CHARGES?

A. IT CAN BE. ANY CFR VIOLATION IS AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE. THE REASON I TOOK YOU INTO CUSTODY, AGAIN, BEING NEW TO THE FORCE AND YOUR NOT HAVING POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I GOT THE RIGHT PERSON.

Q. IS IT USUAL TO ARREST PEOPLE FOR PROBATION VIOLATIONS?

A. I UNDERSTAND THAT IS AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE, SIR, IF A WAR IS ISSUED.

Q. WAS A WARRANT ISSUED ON ME?

A. NO, SIR. THERE WAS A BIT OF CONFUSION ON MY PART AS FAR AS THE STATEMENTS I MADE WHEN I ARRESTED YOU. AGAIN, I USED YOUR CONDITIONS OF PROBATION AS A MEASURING STICK, IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF YOU WERS CAMPING OR NOT, WITH THE ITEMS AT YOUR SITE. WHEN WE APPROACHED YOU, WE DID NOT STATE THAT


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YOU WERE UNDER ARREST FOR A PROBATION VIOLATION. THAT WAS, AGAIN, A CONFUSION ON MY PART. THE ACTUAL CHARGE WOULD BE CAMPING.

Q. WHEN YOU ARRESTED ME, DIDN'T I ASK YOU TO CHECK THAT OUT, WHETHER I SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR A VIOLATION OF PROBATION?

A. YES, AND WE DID CHECK THAT OUT.

Q. AND YOU FOUND THAT THERE SHOULD BE A WARRANT ISSUED; DIDN'T YOU?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. BUT YOU ARRESTED --

A. THE ORIGINAL CHARGE WAS CAMPING. YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR CAMPING.

Q. THE ORIGINAL CHARGE WAS A PROBATION VIOLATION, A VIOLATION OF PROBATION, AND, THEN, WHEN YOU GOT TO THE JAILHOUSE OR TO HAINS POINT, THEN YOU CHANGED IT TO CAMPING; RIGHT?

A. NO. WHAT I WANT TO POINT OUT TO YOU, SIR, IS THAT YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR CAMPING BY USING THE ITEMS IN YOUR CONDITIONS OF PROBATION AS THE CAMPING CHARGE. UNDER YOUR CONDITIONS OF PROBATION, IT IS VERY SPECIFIC AS TO WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT HAVE AT THE SITE. WHEN WE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE, YOU WERE IN VIOLATION BY HAVING TOO MANY ITEMS THERE, AND THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE CAMPING CHARGE.

Q. WHAT PARTICULAR ITEMS MADE YOU FEEL THAT I WAS CAMPING? YOU HAD A PLASTIC TARP. YOU WERE LAYING ON


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THE COURT: A PLASTIC TARP?

THE WITNESS: A PLASTIC TARP.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: YOU WERE LAYING ON A NUMBER OF BLANKETS YOU HAD A LARGE AMOUNT OF FOOD.

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. HOW MUCH, EXACTLY?

A. WELL, LET'S SEE. YOU HAD A BOX OF APPLES, WHICH IS IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOU HAD A PLASTIC TRASH BAG FULL OF FRENCH BREAD. DO YOU WANT ME TO GO ON ABOUT THE --

Q THAT IS A LOT OF FOOD. I Considered IT TO BE A LOT OF FOOD, YES, SIR, MORE THAN A PERSON COULD CONSUME IN A 24-HOUR PERIOD. THAT WAS JUST DROPPED OFF AT THE DEMONSTRATION SITE BY SOMEONE ELSE. DID YOU ASK WHETHER THAT WAS MY FOOD?

A. IT WAS IN YOUR IMMEDIATE CONTROL, SIR.

Q. WERE THERE MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST ME AT THE DEMONSTRATION?

A. AT THE TIME YOU WERE LAYING NEXT TO SOMEBODY. THERE WAS ANOTHER PERSON THERE.

Q. OKAY. SO IF THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE THERE, THERE WERE --HOW MANY HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE THERE IN THIS CITY, A COUPLE OF HUNDRED THOUSAND, on 80,0001

A. I WOULD NOT KNOW, SIR.

Q. SO COULDN'T THAT MANY PEOPLE CONSUME A FEW APPLES THAT

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DAY, OR IN A DAY?

A. I IMAGINE THEY COULD. AT THE TIME THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN, AGAIN, THERE WAS ANOTHER PERSON WITH YOU. WHEN WE APPROACHED YOU, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU WERE THE ONLY PERSON AT THE SITE WHO WAS ACTUALLY LAYING DOWN.

Q. WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT IF WE HAVE A BOX OF APPLES, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THERE IS ENOUGH STREET PEOPLE IN THE VICINITY OF LAFAYETTE PARK THAT COULD EAT THAT MANY APPLES; ISN'T THERE? I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT A SINGLE PERSON, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO HELP OUT.

A. I IMAGINE SO, BUT, AGAIN, IT WAS ON YOUR DEMONSTRATION SITE.

Q. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE SAYING THAT, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, I COULD NOT EAT THAT MUCH FOOD IN 24 HOURS?

A. I AM SAYING THAT, YES.

Q. WELL, DID YOU INQUIRE WHETHER THE FOOD WAS FOR ME, OR WHETHER IT WAS FOR OTHER PEOPLE NO, I DID NOT, SIR. AGAIN, IT WAS AT YOUR SITE, AND MY ASSUMPTION WAS THAT IT WAS IN YOUR IMMEDIATE CONTROL AND BELINGED TO YOU.

Q. OKAY. SO YOU DID NOT INQUIRE AS TO WHO IT BELONGED TO?

A. NO, SIR, I DID NOT

Q. DID YOU INQUIRE AS TO WHO ANY OF THE OTHER STUFF BELONGED


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A. NO.

Q. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, MAYBE NONE OF THE STUFF BELONGED TO ME?

A. IT'S POSSIBLE, YES, STR..

Q. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

MR. FINNEGAN: I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. FINNEGAN: EXCUSE ME. IF I MAY, JUST A MOMENT YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. FINNEGAN: I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FINNEGAN:

Q. OFFICER FORNSHILL, DO YOU RECALL SEEING A RAINCOAT?

A. NO, NOT AT THIS TIME, SIR, I D0 NOT.

Q. DO YOU RECALL SEEING AN UMBRELLA?

A. NO, SIR.

Q. DO YOU RECALL SEEING A BLANKET?

A. YES, SIR. I SAW MANY BLANKETS, SIR.

Q. AND AT THE TIME, HOW WAS THE BLANKET BEING USED?

A. WELL --

Q. AT ANY TIME YOU SAW MR. SEMPLE AT THE SITE?:

A. WELL, IT WAS COVERING HIS BODY AND FACE.


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Q. THE FOOD SUPPLY, YOU HAVE ALREADY INDICATED APPGARED TO YOU TO BE FOR MORE THAN 24 AOURS?

A. THAT A SINGLE PERSON COULD CONSUME, YES, SIR.

Q. DID HE HAVE A SLEEPING BAG WITH HIM?

A. THERE WERE SLEEPING BAGS AT HIS DEMONSTRATION SITE AT ONE OF THE SIGNS.

Q. AND WAS THERE A TARP AT THE SITE?

A. YES, SIR, HE WAS LYING ON A TARP.

Q. DO YOU RECALL A DUFFLE BAG OR ANYTHING USED TO STORE CLOTHING?

A. NOT THAT I COULD SEE.

MR. FINNEGAN: I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY STEP DOWN, OFFICER. OH, EXCUSE ME, MR. SRMPLE. DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION?

MR. SEMPLE: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SEMPLE:

Q. YOU SAW SEVERAL SLEEPING BAGS AND BLANKETS?

A. I SAW A LARGE NUMBER OF BLANKETS AT YOUR SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE DEMONSTRATION, AND MIXED 1N THERE, THERE APPEARED TO BE SLEEPING BAGS, OR A SLEEPING BAG.

Q. DID YOU INQUIRE AS TO WHO THSY BELONGED TO?

A. NO, SIR, I DID NOT:

SEMPLE: OKAY


TRANSCRIPT, CONTINUED

PROPOSITION ONE HOMEPAGE